Delta State Governor, Dr. Emmanuel Uduaghan, in an interview with some journalists recently, he speaks on the call for the convocation of a national conference, what should be the attitude of the people of South-South towards President Goodluck Jonathan among other issues. Group Politics Editor, TAIWO ADISA brings the excerpts:
What is your relationship with your friend, Governor Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers issues, in the light of recent development in the polity?
Amaechi is my friend and he is fine.
How is he?
I said he is my friend, and he is fine.
You are involved in the ongoing reconciliation between some aggrieved governors and President Jonathan. Are you not surprised that a few days after a ceasefire was announced, the seven aggrieved governors were at the National Assembly where there was an exchange of blows among some lawmakers?
What happened after the meeting; there was a communiqué that was read by one of my colleagues and we also saw what happened at the National Assembly which I think was unfortunate. But having said that, what gladdens my heart is that reconciliation process is on and we must all be appreciative and thanked Mr. President for the posture he has taken on this matter. He has been on top of this reconciliation and holding meetings and trying to resolve the issues. As long as we allow the reconciliation to go on, we will eventually get there. We might have hiccups here and there like we had at the National Assembly, but I don’t think it will derail the reconciliation process. I think from the direction of Mr. President, I think he is determined to see to the end and that is very important. It is when he gives up somewhere along the line that we might have the challenges. I think he is determined, no matter what happens, no matter the hiccups we are having, to see to the end because once you are able to create an atmosphere for people to talk when there is a crisis, then the solution to that problem is not too far.
Like the husband and wife in the house when they quarrel, when they start talking, the woman brings the food, he eats it, he doesn’t even thank her for the food, but at least he has eaten it. That means reconciliation is going on. The next time he will eat it and say ah, this food is nice or not; he is also talking. I don’t think this process will just take one day or it will end on October 7. But I think before October 7, a lot of processes would have taken place that would give confidence to everybody to say that, look something good is coming at the end of the day. What happened at the National Assembly was unfortunate and for those of us who are working behind, the processes should continue.
There seems to be conflicting signals on the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) crisis and demands of the aggrieved governors and the President’s re-election.
I said there are some issues that are still being processed and comments on such issues would not come now. When they are fully processed, you will hear my comments. You will notice that even on the Nigeria Governors Forum (NGF), you have not heard much from me. Many of you had wanted my view; I was a ‘UN’ observer. My report is still on the way. My report on this issue is still on the way too. Let’s not complicate issues. What I believe is that there is time to talk and a time to be quite. But whatever you are doing, whether you are quiet or you are talking, ensure that such action is reconciliatory and it brings peace to the process.
That is my position on any issue because ultimately, it is about democracy in Nigeria; it is about peace in Nigeria. I am sure all of us are enjoying this democracy; let all of us put our hands and heads and everything together to be able to guide this democracy. That is why I will not make comments on some of the issues you have asked.
The type of challenges we are having today did not start from this administration. These are things that have built up over the years. There are challenges but there is hope. In the world over, the global economy is groaning, unemployment is about the highest level in any part of this world today. In Europe, heads of states are losing elections because of unemployment. The immediate challenge President Barak Obama, had in his re-election was the issue of unemployment.
Unemployment is not just a localised issue to Nigeria; we have unemployment all over the world.
Unfortunately for us here, what has complicated our unemployment situation is that the rate of production of children, it is about the highest we have ever seen in the history of Nigeria. Our population increase is so high. We are having children that we cannot even take care of. We have children that mothers are sending out to hawks; that is why we went into this Education Marshals. The population is rising, you know, and unemployment is increasing, so these are challenges that are confronting any government. Unfortunately, it is confronting us and it is leading to a lot of things, insecurity and a lot of other things. If we make it a blame-game, then we are not ready to solve the problem, but if we start seeking solutions, we will find the solutions. I am not saying that somebody who cannot contribute to the process of improving economy should be where he should not be, but it is not an issue of blame game.
What is your succession plans like in Delta?
It is on course. There is no way you can hold a position without having a succession plan. The person, who is going to succeed me, will be elected by the people.
The person has to work hard, he also has to work on me who has one vote and also work on the people that have over two million votes. The challenge about my succession plan is that I have put a structure in place that I am marketing to Deltans that we should build an economy beyond oil and since you are going to succeed me, you have to convince the people that your plan is to build Delta economy beyond oil. If you say it is not part of your plan and you want to make the state depend on oil forever, I don’t think you will have it easy to be elected. I am sure the person has to key into the programme we have put in place.
There has been a clamour for the convocation of a Sovereign National Conference. The President of the Senate, David Mark, has now thrown his weight behind the agenda. Do you support the idea?
It is unfortunate that some of us are small men and our voices are very small and are not loud enough. I talked about it about three years ago that Nigeria needs a national confab. What I refused to agree with is a Sovereign National Conference. If we should remove the word sovereign, we should hold a National Conference. I talked about it maybe in low tone over three years ago because we have various challenges in Nigeria that we need to sit down and discuss.
There are regional challenges, there are security challenges, there are even religious challenges that we need to sit down and discuss and agree on the way forward.
There are economic challenges; there are regional challenges in this country. If you are not from that area, you might not understand some of the challenges in those areas and until we sit down and put the things on the table, then we start the process of give and take.
Okay, from this part of the country, these are the challenges and from the other part of Nigeria, these are the challenges. Okay I will give in to this, you will give in to that; we start the process of give and take and eventually, arrive at something that is acceptable to everyone and we move on from there. It might not even be the best by the time we even agree, but with time, we build on what we have started as a people. Because like you said, there is much suspicion, there is so much distrust.
I mean let me take the issue of President Jonathan; for instance, many people in the Niger Delta believe that the opposition against Jonathan is because he is from the area. I mean they started with performance, but have left issue of performance. This is the President that has been facing the challenges of security from the word go. I have not seen any president who has had the kinds of challenges he has. The Boko Haram, it is from day one. One of the conditions in the Boko Haram communiqué was that if you want us to cease fire, you must become a Muslim as President of Nigeria. That kind of a thing has never happened. So, the Niger Delta people are looking at it that: is it because Jonathan is our son that all these problems are happening? Is it because he is our son that some of these moves are being made against him, which they don’t do against their people? When they wanted to be President, they came to us. We have always been giving the highest votes. Now that our son is there, we expect that they should also give us the highest votes. You know these are questions. They may be real, they may be abstract, but they are questions people from that region are asking.
I believe the opposition to Jonathan should not come from his region. People from his zone should put their hands and heads together and see how they can build bridges across the other parts of Nigeria to make him succeed as president. I agree that there should be a National Conference, if anything, to give everybody room to air their view and then we start negotiation on what should happen to us.
You recently inaugurated caretaker committees for local governments in your state. This is against the spirit of the constitution. When are you going to have council election in Delta?
Let me first of all say the issue of who fixes the date for local government election is by the State Independent Electoral Commission. The responsibility of the governor is to put up that commission which I have done. Unfortunately, at the time they cancelled the last exercise, we took a list to the state House of Assembly, but somebody challenged the membership in court. So, it took us time to get through because we had to appeal to him to remove the case from court before we inaugurated the commission. I think the commission is in place; they are going round, sensitising people.
How do you see the call by the Rotimi Amaechi-led faction of the Nigerian Governors’ Forum, (NGF), calling for the resignation of Minister of Finance, Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala?
Yes, there was a call by some of my colleagues for the resignation of the Finance Minister, Dr Okonjo-Iweala, if she cannot manage the economy, especially the Appropriation Act. I was very careful in listening to and reading the communiqué. If you read the communiqué, it talked about projection and what projection simply means is that you are not sure of what is on ground. What that means is that you are making an estimate and your projection may be correct or wrong. What has happened is that I think the Federal Government is saying that our projection, although is an Act, is not quite adding up and so we cannot run it exactly the way it has been projected.
Again, a budget is a statement of intention and there are two parts of budget, You have the revenue and the expenditure. We are talking about expenditure and that expenditure includes giving some money to the states. As regards the position today, the Federation Account Allocation Committee, FAAC, meeting, especially for this month is suspended indefinitely. At least no meeting has been fixed. Why and what is the problem? The problem is that there is no enough money available on the table to be shared.
Now the question is: What is happening? Why are we not having enough money to be shared? Now, the budget was based on a projection of about 2.3 million barrels per day and with a benchmark of about $79 per barrel. And sometimes, about two or three weeks ago, there were issues of low production because of crude oil theft and of course, a committee was put up. I was the head of that committee.
It was found out that there was about 400,000 barrels loss of oil per day and out of the 400,000, about 320,000 was from shutting and about 80,000 barrels of crude were being stolen.
So, you strongly believe that Okonjo-Iweala is not the problem but the NNPC is liable?
I think the pressure should be on the agencies that are collecting money on behalf of the federating states; NNPC being one of them that is collecting revenue. Of course, we have others like the Federal Inland Revenue Services, (FIRS), the Customs and the rest. So, Nigerians should be asking that these monies that are being collected by these various organs, where are they? They should speak out. Pressure should be put on the right quarters so that we don’t unnecessarily sacrifice the very wrong person.
The Governor Rotimi Amaechi-led NGF also demanded that the nation’s economy should be managed by the National Economic Council (NEC), not the Economic Management Team. What is your view on this?
There is no doubt that everyone has a role to play in the management of the economy. The Economic Management Team that was put in place by our President as of today has some of the best and brightest Nigerians in terms of economic activities. The Dangotes, Oba Otudekos and the Jim Ovias of this world, among others, I mean you can’t fault those people in terms of their pedigrees. I think the President has been wise enough to put those people together, mainly as advisory body. I don’t see why we should have issues with them.
The National Economic Council is still meeting regularly; that is where you have the Vice-President and the governors, who are coming out with economic policies. So, I am not sure it is correct to say that the Economic Management Team is the issue with the Nigerian economy.
You seem to see issues differently from your colleagues, could this be political?
It is not about Ministry of Finance or Ministry of Petroleum Resources. Now in every sector, there are technical people. We have them in NNPC. We must differentiate NNPC from Ministry of Petroleum. Maybe because I have deeper knowledge of some of these issues, that is why my position is slightly different from my colleagues’ own. Like I have told you, I was the chairman of the committee that had to do with the challenge of oil theft and for almost three months, I was holding meetings in Abuja every week with the security agencies, the IOCs, the Ministry of Petroleum Resources, Ministry of Finance, dealing with the real issues because of the challenges. Even some of the communities, all the agencies and the illegal people were part of the meeting every week, and by God’s grace, we were able to reduce the 500,000bpd of oil loss to less than 80,000 bpd.
So having said that, that means our oil production is now at the quantity that was budgeted for. The sale has not gone below what was estimated. So, where is the money we are making from there? I head the committee of about three or four governors, we were with them from 12noon to 8pm and at the end of the day, we really didn’t have a head or tail. So, it is an issue of accountability by the agencies that are supposed to bring this money to the table. I suggest we have proper and correct perspective so that we can deal with this issue.
What is going happen to payment of salaries with the inability of FAAC to share money this month?
Our economy is still oil-dependent and that is why some of us are saying look, let us build our economy beyond oil. Of course, we know that we have started building Delta State beyond oil. We are almost getting there, at least, with our Internally Generated Revenue, IGR, we would be able to pay our salaries. That is our charter; grow beyond oil whether the FAAC is coming or not, we should be able to pay our salary based on our IGR.
Because most states depend on this allocation to be able to pay salaries, don’t forget that even the Federal Government is an arm in this revenue sharing issue, they all have challenges of paying salaries. I am not sure the Federal Government has paid salaries for this month now because no sharing has been done. Many states have been unable to pay salaries because for the past three months, what is being given to them is not enough. That is where the challenge of paying salaries is coming from as far as the states are concerned.
What is the way out?
NNPC should come and tell us where they keep the money. That is the solution. The problem is that NNPC has not been able to convince us we don’t have enough money to share. That is the point I am trying to make. I think why they (governors) are a bit hard on Okonjo-Iweala is that she should bring money from the Excess Crude Account and all this sort, but again that is something for another session.
If NNPC is holding the nation to ransom, why can’t the Presidency make changes there?
I usually don’t talk about changes because I have not been in that position to make changes. If I want to make changes in my state, for instance, that is quite easy
